Dear Mark Z

Mark,

Thank you so much for your detailed response.  I appreciate your zeal in trying to change my world view! Of course you know that is a futile attempt.  But nice try!I think before I get started it would be helpful for each of us to recognize that the lens in which we look at the world is very different.  I look through a lens of belief in Christ and you look at it through a lens of disbelief...or, rather, a belief, I am assuming, in science.  And while those beliefs seem incompatible to some I do not believe that to be the case.  I believe there is great dialog to be had between people of differing beliefs. So, I would like to address your response point by point if possible.

1) "...you must see that had you been born in another country, say India, you would most likely be a hindu, if you were born 10,000 years ago you might be worshipping some type of animalistic deity. There have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of gods that predate Christianity many of which have extremely similar characteristics."

While I agree that geographical areas tend to have clustered belief structures I believe that religions of all types have great reach throughout the world.  Simply because people use to worship one way does not impact what I believe today.  I realize that your point is that through that collective of differing belief stories I have somehow been brainwashed into belief nothing but a continuation of another creation myth.  I don't believe that to be the case.  I was born in Indiana and witnessed many forms of racism as I grew up.  That doesn't mean that I have to choose to be racist myself.  So, to me, a person's birth place or upbringing does not have to be the determining factor in what their ultimate belief system ends up being.  But, as I said before, I know what your getting at and it is this point...

2)For example Attis of Phrygia: born on December 25th, was a savior who was slain to save mankind, his body as bread was eaten by his worshippers, he was crucified on a tree, and he rose from the dead 3 days later... This is not a coincidence, the story of Jesus Christ is an elaborately detailed fable. A fable that has aspects of which have been reused many many times before he was supposed to have lived. The bible wasn't even written until 70 years after his supposed death. So in terms of humans knowing the Christian god before others and straying away from him, no they didn't.

I think your statement above is made with some generalities.  It reminds of the Zeitgeist film from 2007.  While it would very easy to believe that the story of Jesus is a rehashed story of Attis that just isn't the case.  I would like to refer you to this site as I think it sheds some great information on the "Paganism/Christianity" debate. Click here... Secondly, your characterization of Jesus as a "elaborately detailed fable" is a little too heavy handed for me.  Disbelieve the deity of Jesus if you choose but to deny that he existed and performed a ministry is just not worth a discussion.  Finally, your statement that "the Bible wasn't even written until 70 years after his supposed death. So in terms of human beings knowing the Christian god before others and straying away from him, they didn't." I would remind you that the Bible is comprised of much more than just the New Testament.  Our faith is a continuation of the relationship that God had with Israelites.  The Old Testament dates back to 1200 BC and was completed somewhere around 500 BC. So the relationship between the God of the Bible and His people occurred much earlier than you argue.  

3)  There are many examples of god doing things that we would consider evil and other times things that are good. I was just trying to make the point that god is not always spreading joy amongst his follows and making them feel complete, he could be killing children or destroying all of humanity in a flood. ...I think you can make a pretty easy argument that religions bring alot more pain and conflict into the world than they bring good

Finally, I agree that, throughout history, religion has been the backdrop of terrible atrocities.  But, one again, I think you make an incorrect correlation between God and religion.  Those atrocities were and are committed by the people of that religion not he God they serve.  It is very easy to look at the Noah story and see God in the light of a cruel destroyer but one must also have to look at Him in the light of a God of justice and providence.  People can cause great harm and commit great acts of violence all in the name of religion however, I think to blame the God they follow and not the follower is a cop out.  To blame the muslim god for Jihad is no more acceptable than to blame my God for the Inquisition.

When it comes down to it, we just believe different things to be true and that's OK.  I would love to change your world view just as much as you would love to change mine.  However, I think we both know that is not going to be the outcome of these discussions.  What is productive is to continue sharing thoughts and ideas so that we might have a dialog in the midst of our disagreements. May God bless our discussions.

MarkZ14861391

I messaged you in the hope of convincing you to change your world view, no easy task! I'll try to respond to your tweets in order. I guess I need to know more about your beliefs, are you a creationist? Do you understand some of the basics of science, ie the big bang theory? The reason I brought up other religions is that you must see that had you been born in another country, say India, you would most likely be a hindu, if you were born 10,000 years ago you might be worshipping some type of animalistic deity. There have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of gods that predate Christianity many of which have extremely similar characteristics. For example Attis of Phrygia: born on December 25th, was a savior who was slain to save mankind, his body as bread was eaten by his worshippers, he was crucified on a tree, and he rose from the dead 3 days later... This is not a coincidence, the story of Jesus Christ is an elaborately detailed fable. A fable that has aspects of which have been reused many many times before he was supposed to have lived. The bible wasn't even written until 70 years after his supposed death. So in terms of humans knowing the Christian god before others and straying away from him, no they didn't.

I am going to assume that you don't take every word of the bible literally, so I don't think we need to argue about whether the Christian god is good or bad. There are many examples of god doing things that we would consider evil and other times things that are good. I was just trying to make the point that god is not always spreading joy amongst his follows and making them feel complete, he could be killing children or destroying all of humanity in a flood. Yes, I understand that most of these seem to be moral lessons, but many people take the bible literally, and often the morals are not even what most people would agree with today. For example the systematic and overt oppression of homosexuals.

I think you can make a pretty easy argument that religions bring alot more pain and conflict into the world than they bring good. I'm not sure what a spiritual gift test is, maybe you can tell me about it. I know Christians give alot charitably, I think that's great, having organized communities of people that want to help people are fantastic.

I'm enjoying talking to you, I hope you feel the same way. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts and more about your faith. I also don't want you to feel personally attacked, although in a way that's what I'm doing :/ I guess I want you to know I don't think you are stupid or bad, or that I'm trying to be malicious. Let me know your thoughts!